I have been dancing tango for close to a year now... several times a week, and sometime I get the odd feeling that I am going backwards w/r to being accepted by followers.
I think that I am past the "beginner status" where even advanced dancer will take you for a ride just to be nice. Now they figure that I dance how I dance, and they may or may not enjoy it and feel free to say no. That's good in a way, but it's confusing to me. I find that I can have some good dances with, and good feedback from, experienced dancers. At the same time some who are less experienced will turn me down, and some who used to dance with me now turn me down as well. Maybe their own perception of their dancing has changed and now they want to dance just with the very advanced leaders... I'm just not sure. Has anybody else felt the same way?
Overall this reinforces my goal to get really good at this. These types of feelings are probably some of the addictive elements of tango (a friend of mine calls tango a "meritocracy")... or good reasons to quit and do something else...
I think that I am past the "beginner status" where even advanced dancer will take you for a ride just to be nice. Now they figure that I dance how I dance, and they may or may not enjoy it and feel free to say no. That's good in a way, but it's confusing to me. I find that I can have some good dances with, and good feedback from, experienced dancers. At the same time some who are less experienced will turn me down, and some who used to dance with me now turn me down as well. Maybe their own perception of their dancing has changed and now they want to dance just with the very advanced leaders... I'm just not sure. Has anybody else felt the same way?
Overall this reinforces my goal to get really good at this. These types of feelings are probably some of the addictive elements of tango (a friend of mine calls tango a "meritocracy")... or good reasons to quit and do something else...
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SF Bay Area
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Re: On being turned down...
Sun, June 3, 2007 - 11:22 AMI don't know but it sounds like you are dancing in the Bay Area. I have danced at many places in the country and the Bay Area is the only place that I have seen this thing you are experiencing happening.
On the other hand, only one year of dancing tango is really not much. To me, as a leader, my main focus is to give the lady the best experience that I can. To make her comfortable, and be clear enough in my lead that she doesn't have to think about anything! It's really not about how many moves I can do...but really dancing her to the music.
I would just advise you to keep taking lessons, Christopher and Caroline are my favorite teachers there and after a while you will get better and then you will be able to dance with them all.
remember.
"El tango no está en los pies. Está en el corazón." -
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Re: On being turned down...
Sun, June 3, 2007 - 11:33 AMI have seen women turn down leaders in SF because:
they were "old" (Old argentinian guys are the Best leaders)
They were "not good looking "(But boy could they lead, cuz I danced with them and I Know)
They "weren't famous" ( and these girls only showed up when Forever Tango was in town)
I turn down leaders who get obvious erections, or whose hands go where they're not supposed to. -
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Re: On being turned down...
Sun, June 3, 2007 - 8:51 PMBwahhahaha! What are you wearing, dear?
okay, yeah the older guys are so delicious. I do not turn down leaders who are polite and respectful, even young guys who have no idea what they are doing yet. There were a lot of people who were patient with me...
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Re: On being turned down...
Mon, June 4, 2007 - 1:35 AMErections are, of course, involuntary, and hands can, sometimes, end up in the wrong place during a poorly executed move. But it seems to me that these situations are less likely in tango than in ballroom. Even close embrace is more of an inverted "V" postion where hips don't touch (as they do in American tango) and the tango frame seems less likely to encourage varied arm motions like, say, in swing or salsa.
BTW I find the notion that some women assume that an accidental brush of a breast was not really "accidental" very upsetting. It takes too much time and energy to get good at dancing to think that a leader would blow it away for a "cheap thrill". Anybody who dances regularly is conscious of cultivating dance partners and friends. But then again, I have never been a woman....
I have, however, had "accidents" (not in tango) and if I sensed discomfort in the woman I would also become extremley uncomfortable, to the point of wanting to end the dance. I need to feel that there is a sense of trust, that we are both in it for the fun of dancing. -
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Re: On being turned down...
Mon, June 4, 2007 - 7:27 AMYes, in a close embrace the hips should not come into contact. That is my point. You seem to think I am new at this- I was dancing for ten years before I stopped. It is Perfectly possible to have an accidental erection and never let the follower know about it. That is why I Specifically said "Obvious Erection"-if I can feel it then he should know that cuz he can feel it as well and Do somethng about it. And a hand on my backside for a full threee minutes is not an "accidental slip".
Now in ballet lifts, if my partner gets a handful by accident then I should hope he has enough sense to hang on and not drop me on stage but in Tango I really don't see how a hand can come into contact with a breast.That would indicate poor framing. -
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Re: On being turned down...
Tue, June 5, 2007 - 2:02 AM...to say the least! What you are describing must really be awful. I just can't relate to it. As I said, anybody who took the time to learn to dance, especially tango, would want to be sure that any partner would want to dance with him again, and groping is a sure recipe for guaranteed future rejection. So, I don't get it ... but I obviously cannot deny what you have experienced.
What I have experienced, from the other side, has been an extreme sense of "guard up" - probably due to some bad experience - that made it virtually impossible to relax and dance.
Anyhow, I hope you didn't stop dancing because of these situations!
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Re: On being turned down...
Tue, June 5, 2007 - 8:15 AMno, I had other reasons that don't apply to this thread...might show up one Sunday in the park... -
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Re: On being turned down...
Tue, June 5, 2007 - 10:12 AMI dance in the Bay Area, in Emeryville in fact, at classes only right now, since I am a beginner, but have been dancing other dance forms for years, and pick up dance quickly. Still, I recognize that tango will take years to really feel "good in my skin". Maybe I am in the minority, but I would NEVER not dance with a guy because he is older/ not my physical style.
My reasons for not coming back to a partner I've already danced with (I will always try once):
like Messoiun (sp?)
*bad breath
*arrogant that its not going well because its MY fault
*bossy
*tries to keep dancing with me when its time to switch
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Re: On being turned down...
Mon, June 4, 2007 - 1:49 PMPlease, please, tell me that you are joking?????
What the hell do I care if a guy is old and ugly as long as he dances well? I have my eyes closed anyway!
My reasons for turning down men:
- smells bad
- has an uncompatible dance style
- counts while dancing
And these are all things that I mostly find out WHILE I am dancing with them.
I have danced with pretty young guys who I was totally incompatible with (although he obiously had training, I couldn't figure out his leading).
And the only truly famous dancer I ever came close to, didn't ask me to dance :-)
The women you are talking about deserve to spend their entire evening sitting on their chairs watching the others having fun!
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Re: On being turned down...
Mon, June 4, 2007 - 1:01 AMWell said, Larry. Yes I dance in the Bay Area, and, at least my intent is to dance, as you say, "from the heart". Yes, one year isn't much in tango but it's been also several times a week, including classes. Regardless, being turned down by some women who used to take my same classes and now seem to sit and wait just for the "best" to ask them... is hard to take. I remind myself of a couple of things, one is to never "take personally" being turned out... (but that takes some arguing with my achiever, competitive self...) . The other one is that I AM getting better, and that there are many women, now at all levels, who do seem to enjoy dancing with me. I expect that they will continue to be my favorite partners...
Back to the "never taking it personally". I found that easier to do in regular ballroom. It felt like there was "no chemistry" in some case, and that was allright. That is true of tango as well, but there seems to be a stronger concept of "level". It feels like people should wear colored belts like in the martial arts...
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Re: On being turned down...
Mon, June 4, 2007 - 1:43 PMI on the contrary think that chemistry for me is MUCH more important than level.
If a guy does 3 steps in a way that I can follow well, it's much more enjoyable for me than if he does 30 steps and I feel that he somehow isn't connected to me.
Maybe it's because I have been exposed to different dance scenes from an early stage on?
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